In Spirit and in Truth
OPINION & OBSERVATION · 1st October 2009
primetime133 via youtube
Youtube Comment & Editor's Response on 1st Degree
primetime133 wrote:
With all due respect you should be ashamed of the 1st degree Morgentaler video. The woman who makes her passionate speech is a very sad person clearly. However her upset really has nothing to do with Morgentaler and everything to do with her decision making. She clearly states that the abortion which Morgentaler provided was in fact her 3rd. No one forced her to have the abortions. Perhaps more importantly she needs to take responsibility for her failure to use proper contraception on three different occasions.
We should respect your right to be expressive through filmmaking, however what you create was offensive to someone who understands what Morgentaler went through in an attempt to provide the Constitutionally protected rights of WOMEN under our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. In making this video you TAKE AWAY from women's rights, not enhance them.
JSCH - Editor writes in response:
You sound like an intelligent and gifted person who will understand where sexual, physical and emotional abuse can put a persons self worth. You can also understand that with only ten minutes in which to work with for the competition this was made for and my limit here on Youtube, the rest of the story has to wait for another time and place.
Vicky speaks of a sad time in her life; she is a courageous, and caring woman who now helps young women who are in need. How can I be ashamed for giving voice to a small part of one courageous and caring woman’s story?
How can you honestly say Henry has nothing to do with Vicky’s decision? Yes she “clearly states that the abortion which Dr. Morgentaler provided was in fact her 3rd” but what did she tell the doctor before the procedure began, “I don’t want to do this to my baby.” Regardless of where one stands on the issue of abortion, what would be a good response to a woman who says this about a life changing procedure that didn’t have to happen immediately?
You say, “No one forced her to have the abortions” how do you know the circumstances around her abortions or whether she was on any kind of contraception or not or if that was possible in her circumstances? What about the responsibility, or lack thereof of the so-called men involved?
It’s your choice and right to take offense at my giving voice to Vicky’s true story juxtaposed with what Dr. Morgentalers thinks and feels. I have seen and heard what the Dr. went through from Henry himself as well as other sources, and I too understand.
Freedom involves choice, including getting information through various channels, even those that have opposing views to help us get closer to the whole truth. We all have something to learn from each other.
In saying you feel my portrayal of facts takes away from the rights of women’s freedom, are you not trying to silence my life giving freedom of expression? Vicky felt silenced by society and the evangelical church. Her freedom to share from her pain and healing is a help to the countless women who feel the same way she does and who benefit and gain courage from seeing and hearing her and others like her. I have heard from some of them including one who went through a similar experience with Dr. Morgentaler more recently.
I am not perfect but what I do, I do because I care about all people... especially women. Men over the ages have done women and thus in turn their own selves a grave, grave injustice. I only wish we could make it up to women.
To view video, please follow the link below.
primetime133 wrote:
With all due respect you should be ashamed of the 1st degree Morgentaler video. The woman who makes her passionate speech is a very sad person clearly. However her upset really has nothing to do with Morgentaler and everything to do with her decision making. She clearly states that the abortion which Morgentaler provided was in fact her 3rd. No one forced her to have the abortions. Perhaps more importantly she needs to take responsibility for her failure to use proper contraception on three different occasions.
We should respect your right to be expressive through filmmaking, however what you create was offensive to someone who understands what Morgentaler went through in an attempt to provide the Constitutionally protected rights of WOMEN under our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. In making this video you TAKE AWAY from women's rights, not enhance them.
JSCH - Editor writes in response:
You sound like an intelligent and gifted person who will understand where sexual, physical and emotional abuse can put a persons self worth. You can also understand that with only ten minutes in which to work with for the competition this was made for and my limit here on Youtube, the rest of the story has to wait for another time and place.
Vicky speaks of a sad time in her life; she is a courageous, and caring woman who now helps young women who are in need. How can I be ashamed for giving voice to a small part of one courageous and caring woman’s story?
How can you honestly say Henry has nothing to do with Vicky’s decision? Yes she “clearly states that the abortion which Dr. Morgentaler provided was in fact her 3rd” but what did she tell the doctor before the procedure began, “I don’t want to do this to my baby.” Regardless of where one stands on the issue of abortion, what would be a good response to a woman who says this about a life changing procedure that didn’t have to happen immediately?
You say, “No one forced her to have the abortions” how do you know the circumstances around her abortions or whether she was on any kind of contraception or not or if that was possible in her circumstances? What about the responsibility, or lack thereof of the so-called men involved?
It’s your choice and right to take offense at my giving voice to Vicky’s true story juxtaposed with what Dr. Morgentalers thinks and feels. I have seen and heard what the Dr. went through from Henry himself as well as other sources, and I too understand.
Freedom involves choice, including getting information through various channels, even those that have opposing views to help us get closer to the whole truth. We all have something to learn from each other.
In saying you feel my portrayal of facts takes away from the rights of women’s freedom, are you not trying to silence my life giving freedom of expression? Vicky felt silenced by society and the evangelical church. Her freedom to share from her pain and healing is a help to the countless women who feel the same way she does and who benefit and gain courage from seeing and hearing her and others like her. I have heard from some of them including one who went through a similar experience with Dr. Morgentaler more recently.
I am not perfect but what I do, I do because I care about all people... especially women. Men over the ages have done women and thus in turn their own selves a grave, grave injustice. I only wish we could make it up to women.
To view video, please follow the link below.
my original views stand
Comment by Prime133 Responds on 8th October 2009
Thanks for your response. However, I still have some concerns about your video and the story of Vicky. I have followed the Morgentaler cases as well, and although have never heard him speak live, have heard him say through video a number of times that women in his clinics do have access to counseling and he explicitly advises this process prior to the abortion procedure. I do not think that Vicky gives any credence to this part of any abortion process. Abortion clinics most often have consultory processes where the goal is to give women information about the physical and mental consequences of having an abortion. I am not trying to be offensive to Vicky, but she does not acknowledge this whatsoever, and unfortunately given her multiple experiences with the surgery you would assume that she would have a broader perspective. As far as the men involved, that would be an individual case, women always have to take account of the character of the men they become involved with, I do not think you can blame men for her story. That is my opinion.
I still do take offence to your narrative in this story, the title of your work is 1st degree Morgentaler. I am making the jump that you consider the abortion in this case as being analagous to 1st degree murder. This is a big stretch in my opinion and I think you need to take a more thorough look at what first degree murder entails, the Canadian Criminal Code is a good place to start.
If your intention is truly to help women as you suggest in your reply I think that you are misguided by Vicky's case. What you are doing is implying that Dr. Henry Morgentaler, a man who has been awarde the highest civilian honor in our country, the Order of Canada, is in fact involved in 1st degree murder. The evolution of Canadian law would suggest that this is not the case at all, the Charter makes this explicit. I am questioning your perspective( I would be interested in knowing how you developed your opinions) and the fact that you take your own view and impose it on a great man who has put his life on the line and served time in jail in an effort to provide women's rights. Thank you for your response, but my original views about your video still stand at this point.
Thanks for your response. However, I still have some concerns about your video and the story of Vicky. I have followed the Morgentaler cases as well, and although have never heard him speak live, have heard him say through video a number of times that women in his clinics do have access to counseling and he explicitly advises this process prior to the abortion procedure. I do not think that Vicky gives any credence to this part of any abortion process. Abortion clinics most often have consultory processes where the goal is to give women information about the physical and mental consequences of having an abortion. I am not trying to be offensive to Vicky, but she does not acknowledge this whatsoever, and unfortunately given her multiple experiences with the surgery you would assume that she would have a broader perspective. As far as the men involved, that would be an individual case, women always have to take account of the character of the men they become involved with, I do not think you can blame men for her story. That is my opinion.
I still do take offence to your narrative in this story, the title of your work is 1st degree Morgentaler. I am making the jump that you consider the abortion in this case as being analagous to 1st degree murder. This is a big stretch in my opinion and I think you need to take a more thorough look at what first degree murder entails, the Canadian Criminal Code is a good place to start.
If your intention is truly to help women as you suggest in your reply I think that you are misguided by Vicky's case. What you are doing is implying that Dr. Henry Morgentaler, a man who has been awarde the highest civilian honor in our country, the Order of Canada, is in fact involved in 1st degree murder. The evolution of Canadian law would suggest that this is not the case at all, the Charter makes this explicit. I am questioning your perspective( I would be interested in knowing how you developed your opinions) and the fact that you take your own view and impose it on a great man who has put his life on the line and served time in jail in an effort to provide women's rights. Thank you for your response, but my original views about your video still stand at this point.
never be persuaded to hide the truth
Comment by Juda Myers on 4th October 2009
Hey John never be persuaded to hide the truth under any circumstance. God bless you and those you touch.
Hey John never be persuaded to hide the truth under any circumstance. God bless you and those you touch.
Good for you John primetime133 is Wrong
Comment by Bill Vollrath on 1st October 2009
Hang in there John, This person seems to have some other axe to grind. Your "1st Degree Morgentaler" video was very well done and only presented facts. Good on you!
Hang in there John, This person seems to have some other axe to grind. Your "1st Degree Morgentaler" video was very well done and only presented facts. Good on you!